Lucky Time Part 2 with Tracy Jones & Douglas Cameron

When the chords of life strike a dissonant note, it's the art of music that can guide us back to harmony. The latest instalment of Pass the Jam, Part 2 of 'Lucky Time' , I'm joined by Douglas Cameron for the inaugural  "passing of the jam" to our next artist in residence, Tracy Jones.

This episode offers a masterclass in dedication, from honing vocal prowess to strumming the guitar with intention. Tracy's narrative is one of preparation and courage, empowering artists to transcend their limits and forge a deep bond with their sound. He challenges us to find our unique voice.

As the conversation unfolds,  we explore the alchemy of the creative process. The episode culminates in a celebration of the spontaneous magic that happens when musicians unite, whether in the intimacy of a recording studio or the electric atmosphere of a live performance.

We say a fond farewell to Douglas Cameron, while welcoming Tracy as our new artist in residence, this chapter reaffirms our belief in the communal spirit of music and the collaboration that lies at the heart of our musical community.

The music for this episode,  is written and performed by our new artist in residence, #TracyJones

You can find out more about Tracy by visiting the Blog Post for this episode

Link to Information about how to be a guest on Pass the Jam

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Chapters

• 0:05 Pass the Jam
• 12:30 Advice for Aspiring Musicians
• 17:33 Creative Process and Collaborative Music
• 20:35 The Jam has Been Past

Transcript

Lucky Time - Part 2

[00:00:00] Blake Melnick: Well, welcome to this week's episode of, for what it's worth and our series Pass the Jam. This is part two of Lucky Time and the inaugural passing of the jam from artist and residence Douglas Cameron to our next artist, Tracy [00:01:00] Jones. Last week we dove into the heart of 'Lucky Time' ,Tracy Jones, most recent album. Tracy provided us with insight into the profound meaning behind the title track and the album as a whole. His songs, rich with narrative and emotion serve as a commentary on finding hope and positivity, amid global upheaval and personal challenges. Tracy's belief in the power of music to offer solace and perspective during turbulent times is a poignant reminder of art's transformative nature. All good art is intentional. It does not happen by accident and it reflects deep meaning gleaned from the personal experience of the artist. It is what the artists sets out to express; to convey. 

[00:01:46] Blake Melnick: It is a gift of the soul of the artist to the audience. And good art leavesthe listener, the audience subtly changed as a result of the experience. 

[00:01:56] Blake Melnick: We concluded part one of the episode by [00:02:00] introducing our current artist and residence, Douglas Cameron. So we'll pick up from where we left off. For what it's worth. 

[00:02:09] Douglas Cameron: Is there some physical thing that I hand over and say, “here man, the jam”

[00:02:15] Blake Melnick: more metaphorical Douglas.

[00:02:16] Blake Melnick: Well, actually, that's how the whole series did come about. and it did involve a part of jam. 

[00:02:22] Douglas Cameron: It's so interesting to sit and listen to the conversation that you two guys have had. I recognize that I am just a little bit earlier in the timeframe of everything that you were talking about, and the fact that we both were largely in Toronto, although I didn't grow up in Toronto, but the experiences that I had were just a little bit different than the experiences that you had and yet very similar. So for me listening to you talk. There were two areas, and one is your actual record, which I have some questions [00:03:00] about, although you answered some of them in your conversation. But some of the things that…like you talked about the church thing and it was so interesting to hear that because a lot of my early musical experiences as a kid were at church where I sang in the choir and I sang solos and things like that. And I sat and listened to hymns and I had not thought of this for a long time, but when I heard you talk about it, it made me think about it, that sitting in a church environment listening to hymns. Is an incredible musical education, and especially from the point of view of what is a song, how does a song work?

[00:03:40] Douglas Cameron: And also in a communal sense, because you have a whole bunch of people singing together, I don't know if there's quite the same experience now that people have, but certainly as a kid, every Sunday there we were sitting in the balcony singing these hymns. And in my world and at a certain point [00:04:00] in my musical education, I'll call it. I realized they're all the same thing. They're using all the same 1, 4, 5 or, and occasionally we're gonna go to two, and then after two we're gonna go up to four and then maybe five. And for me, that resonates. So much in terms of my own sort of musical

[00:04:20] Douglas Cameron: world. 

[00:04:21] Tracy Jones: It's funny. It's not something I talk about very much of it, but I think a lot of us back in the day, our parents made us go to church - church is an oral tradition, right? That's what it's about. There is a form to any religious service. It is very call and response driven. And all of those things are elements about, what makes good song writing as well. Whether it's the congregation engagement or the audience engagement they're the same thing we're talking about. I'm singing something, you're giving it back to me yeah, we might not be holding the mic out going everybody hello Cleveland. But I think that was formative for me in terms of where I started. And I grew up, at a time where church wasn't quite so square.

[00:04:58] They were moving from [00:05:00] hymns with organs and a cantor at the front of the church to the, they called it the folk mass. you were hearing songs from Jesus Christ Superstar being played at church. I even remember going to one service up north and I'm pretty sure somebody played Yellow Submarine.

[00:05:14] Tracy Jones: because they had convinced the minister that the yellow submarine was really a metaphor for heaven and God and what we all wanna be when we grow up. It was a really groovy time in, and it wasn't the sixties, this was the seventies so I think it did make a difference.

[00:05:27] Tracy Jones: I think it did make a difference in terms of where we all come from. The traditions that you grew up in.

[00:05:32] Douglas Cameron: And so then in the timeline you talked about when your worlds merged, the music and advertising and I had a brief period of time and I would say it would be in the early eighties spilling - mid eighties where your world was, late eighties, early nineties.

[00:05:49] Douglas Cameron: Mine was late seventies, early eighties. But I actually did a little bit of work in jingle writing for a very brief period of time, about two weeks. I made more money in that two weeks than [00:06:00] I'd made in the entire year, the year before. it really blew my mind. But you also mentioned Harris Cole. And Wild I once auditioned for a commercial

[00:06:10] Tracy Jones: Oh, that's great. 

[00:06:12] Douglas Cameron: It was my one and only audition for a commercial. And I walked in and the three of them were there. And I knew them all a little bit. I didn't know them very well. They knew me well enough to call me to come. And they said, okay, sound like Bruce Springsteen. And I went. I don't really do that. they said, no, come on. Sound like Bruce Springsteen. And I went I don't… and I didn't get the job because I couldn't sound like Bruce Springsteen, but I always thought that was funny and the fact that you had that mesh with them 

[00:06:40] Tracy Jones: I think the cool thing with that experience was as music houses go, those guys, came from a band background, that's where I met Jerry, who produced my album. Jerry's lineage goes back to the prog rock days of the early seventies playing in bands like Hawk Wind and playing with guys like Larry Gowan and Alfie Acosta I think that they rooted so much of what they did in good [00:07:00] song writing. And it was an honor to get to work with them as much as I did.

[00:07:02] Tracy Jones: And Jerry's just also happens to be one of the nicest humans on the planet. Such a lovely guy 

Douglas Cameron: so then this leads to my next… I'm on a roll here. I'm walking down a big highway into this whole conversation. 

[00:07:13] Douglas Cameron: So when I listen to your record, and I have to admit, I have to listen to it more but I was listening in the car.

[00:07:19] Douglas Cameron: I always listen to stuff in the car. And the first thing that hit me. So I'm looking at you, you're sitting in your home studio there. And I can relate because of way that recording has evolved from big rooms with tons of musicians in it, to somebody in a basement and all the recording that I do now is done like that. I rarely have another musician come in unless it's somebody that I'm specifically working with. I listened to your record and I holy cow, this sounds so big. And I'm thinking to myself, wait a minute, are these real drums? Does anybody still do that? And I thought, no, these can't be real drums. These have to be sample drums. And then I [00:08:00] listened. I thought, wow. But yeah, they're like really good drums, and then these big

[00:08:03] Tracy Jones: I'd love to talk about that. We had booked some studio time to do on the floor sessions if we needed it, but ended up not having to in terms of the recording process, most of my stuff I recorded here. I actually spent some time with an engineer though to learn how to really properly record vocals, especially what levels to record at how to set all that stuff up. So I recorded my vocals and my guitar tracks here. I've got a I've got lots of stuff around me, but it's not like I've got neumanns and all kinds of expensive mics and things like that, but it's amazing what you can do now and everything is real.

[00:08:39] Tracy Jones: So the guitars, all the acoustic guitars are real. All the drums are real. So Dave Langeth has a recording room. And that is happening a lot these days, right? We're able to go in and, we gave him the songs to work with and help direct the sessions. But we really gave him the space to play within it. And he delivered just [00:09:00] unbelievably great sounding drum tracks. And in some cases he would give us a two channel reference mix just to say, here's how I'm envisioning what the drums sound like. And in some cases they were so good that we just wanted to use those. 'cause his taste is so good. He knows his instruments so well, and he's playing beautiful sonar drum kits. So yeah, everything's real on it. There were some people that I really wanted to have work on the album with me Paul Reddick and Kyle Ferguson from The Side Men Play on the last song on the album, which is called One More Song, it's a song about my brother who passed away. And Paul and Kyle flew in. Paul came here, recorded his harmonica. I put a fender Bassman in my storage cupboard. Mike it all up, did all of that kind of stuff. And he just played some beautiful things to that. And then Kyle I gave him the tracks and he recorded at his place and he played call and answer as if he and Paul were sitting in the studio together.

[00:09:53] Tracy Jones: 'cause they played together for 25 years. And then there were two solos that I wanted I had an imagining [00:10:00] of what I wanted them to sound like. And the person that I really wanted to have come in was a guy named Sean Kelly. And Sean is an incredible guitar player, an incredible educator, an incredible musician bestselling author he was with Nelly Ferdo for years.

[00:10:15] Tracy Jones: And currently does all kinds of stuff with people like Lee Aaron and Carol Pope and stuff like that. And he just came over and . Grabbed my Les Paul Jr. Plugged it into a Marshall and turned everything up way too loud and just ripped some wicked solos on Rise and Fall. So the contributions by those people really made it.

[00:10:36] Douglas Cameron: I know in terms of the way that people record now, that's such a thing. And it is quite amazing to me because when I started doing things, everything was done in big studios. There were some smaller studios and of course everybody had these little four track recorders and things like that.

[00:10:54] Douglas Cameron: But the idea of a drummer sitting in their own little space and recording things [00:11:00] all of that was just so unheard of. It's quite remarkable. The other thing that I wondered. I have to ask because you mentioned Paul Reddick and Kyle and I think those guys are amazing.

[00:11:11] Douglas Cameron: I think Paul Reddick is a kind of genius shaman, harmonica player and I think that Kyle plays electric guitar more like Robert Johnson than any guitarist I've ever heard. 

[00:11:24] Tracy Jones: Paul is a, Juno award winning artist. And I really do believe he's a national treasure. He redefines blues as a beautiful language that is rooted in singing and country he blends it all so seamlessly and so effortlessly. And when you see them play together the synergy between Paul and Kyle is unlike anything you can imagine.

[00:11:48] Tracy Jones: It's like they're on this wavelength together and you sit in a room listening to just the two of them playing together, and you close your eyes and you are lost. You are just gone. You are in another place. It was [00:12:00] such an honor that they agreed to come and play on that one particular song as well, because it's such an important song to me.

[00:12:05] Douglas Cameron: I'm gonna give a closer listen to your album and play it as I drive around in my car 

[00:12:10] Blake Melnick: as always, thank you both. It's great for me as the host of the show, to listen to people that have the background and experience and musical knowledge that you both have. More important it's great for our listeners. Some of whom may be aspiring musicians or just hacks like me, trying to pick up a few tips. 

[00:12:28] Blake Melnick: Before we do the final passing of the jam. I have a couple of questions. This show is designed partly to help aspiring musicians figure out where they want to go in the music industry. 

[00:12:38] Blake Melnick: And you've both talked a lot about how it's changed since your early days getting into the business. I wanted to ask you, Tracy. What's the best piece of advice you were ever given with respect to pursuing a career in the music business. 

[00:12:52] Tracy Jones: Don't I think it would all add up [00:13:00] to be authentic don't worry about chasing trends. Find your voice. And I think one of the biggest lessons that I've learned over the years from that advice is to do the work I'm hard on myself as a songwriter. I really work hard when I'm working on a song. I sweat out the lyrics, especially, some people are groove driven music driven first and foremost. They don't really care about the words that they're hearing in a song for me. If I don't believe the words that I'm hearing I have trouble connecting with the song. And when I think about all of the songwriters and musicians that I like I think that's a common thread with them is that they do sweat it out. There's another thing the advice that I would give a young musician now that I've only learned over the last few years, is we tend to not like to practice over and over and over again.

[00:13:48] Tracy Jones: Even working in the business world, we don't like to rehearse before a presentation. We wanna keep it spontaneous. But the more I got into this album and the harder Jerry pushed me to play and play and play and play, I realized I [00:14:00] went from being able to do things in 10 takes to doing it the first take because. You just really need to keep your connection to the instrument and you should play every day. Because keeping those synapses connected in your brain just gives you so much more confidence and so much more fluidity and means you're not fighting yourself to make that long answer short, I think get outta your own way would really be an important piece of advice I would give every musician.

[00:14:27] Tracy Jones: Whether you are just getting started and when you're writing your first stuff just move the impediments out of your way. That might be holding you back from achieving your potential. Those might be physical limitations. It might be that you need to practice more.

[00:14:40] Tracy Jones: Might mean you need to learn the neck of the guitar. But it also might be your self-doubt and the best way to get over that is to just practice and practice, and always play and always keep singing. I've always joked that I'm a guitar player who sings, not a singer who plays

[00:14:53] Tracy Jones: guitar. But in the course of working on this album and in the course of writing this album my voice is in a better place than [00:15:00] it's ever been. my youngest son actually even said how is it that you're getting older but your voice is getting stronger?

[00:15:06] Tracy Jones: I think it's just because of practice and repetition and really sticking with it. And by doing that, you also fall in love with your own voice. I know it sounds funny when I say that, but a lot of us don't necessarily. Find our full projection of ourselves because we're insecure we're am I getting away with something here? And I think that as you play your songs over and over again and you sing them everywhere from in the car to when I'm out for a walk or whatever, I'm singing my stuff.

[00:15:33] Tracy Jones: I sing my stuff to myself all the time. it's that old saying, dance like nobody's watching. I think you gotta do that. I think you just gotta keep playing and singing it's a wonderful way to erase your self doubt because you realize you can do it. And you are valid.

[00:15:46] Tracy Jones: You have the right to your voice. 99.9% of people don't make things. And that's not, a shot at other people. But if you actually have that spark in you to create something out of nowhere [00:16:00] called a song. What a gift and what a responsibility we have to do that. That's a good thing.

[00:16:06] Tracy Jones: We're sharing something good, yeah. 

[00:16:09] Blake Melnick: That's a great perspective. I want to pick up on a couple of things. You said, firstly, your comment about doing the work, honing, you're playing, singing, and so forth. at the front end. so that you reap the benefits. When you sit down and record. You know, this is a lesson that can be applied across many fields of endeavor in business. 

[00:16:28] Blake Melnick: For example, spending the time at the front end to hone your strategy, to truly understand the root cause of a problem you're trying to solve. And the context under which you're operating means that when you execute your solution, there's a much greater likelihood of success. Secondly your point about self-confidence and eliminating self doubt. When you were talking about the song we rise, we fall, and your producer said, I want you to take it to "C" that really resonated with me because it's one of the things that I struggle with in my own [00:17:00] singing as well. I'm afraid to let my voice go. I convinced myself it's, out of my range, and I 

[00:17:05] Blake Melnick: can't do it. And therefore can't play the song. and it's, really self-defeating. One of the things we talk a lot about on the show is the art and craft of songwriting. 

[00:17:14] Blake Melnick: And this I think is what you're really talking about. 

[00:17:17] Blake Melnick: So let me ask 

[00:17:18] Blake Melnick: ya how much of what you do is art. In other words, free flowing, inspiration. And how much of it is craft, 

[00:17:25] Blake Melnick: where you really focus on doing the work. 

[00:17:28] Tracy Jones: I think it's a pretty decent blend. Everybody has their own process for the way they write. Always keep a journal handy. And what happens for me often is a couple of phrases will come out, a couple of thematic ideas might come out that I'll write down. And then by the time I've got 10 or 12 pages of those, I'll find a groove, like the only love groove, for instance. And I'll start to look through those pages and I'll go, oh, wait a minute. This thought connects really lovely with this thought. And then they start to come together and the stories build themselves.

[00:17:59] Tracy Jones: [00:18:00] That's one way I write. I've had many times though where I've sat down and a song has come to me in one sitting, just from start to finish.

[00:18:07] Tracy Jones: The first song on my first album which is called For You, it came so fast and so easy that I dismissed it thinking it couldn't be any good 'cause it happened too

[00:18:16] Tracy Jones: But usually. that's the root of it. Coming up with musical ideas is not really a challenge for me.

[00:18:21] Tracy Jones: I'm always thinking about stuff, I'm always noodling. But it's finding that match between things that are on your mind and things that are on your fingers out on a guitar and saying, how do these things all relate to each other? And then the next thing you know, you've started to get something and that's where doing it as a solo artist versus a band situation the recording process comes in as well. If I had been doing it with a band, which I've done that before it would've been a very different album because the dynamic would've been very different. This was me being allowed to around in my own muck and figure out. What I was doing as I was doing it without holding anybody else up or imposing [00:19:00] my beliefs I'm currently working with some people to put together a band show of this album. And what I've said explicitly is, no, I don't wanna sample everything off the album. I don't wanna do that, another guitar player is gonna be playing on it with me. And I've said, I'm not looking for you to copy what I did.

[00:19:14] Tracy Jones: There are some signature things that I think need to be there, but I want this to be your song. Terry's gonna be playing some keyboards with me. I want these to be his songs too. And if you're just prescriptive and say, play my album, great. I can go out and hire musicians to do that, but that's not what I want. I want this to be an ongoing process of musical camaraderie with people. And so whether I'm doing it as a trio with acoustic drums in a small room kind of situation, or whether I'm ramping it up to a whole band. I want people to have room to find themselves in these songs because that to me is what music is really about.

[00:19:46] Tracy Jones: It's a communal experience.

[00:19:47] Blake Melnick: That's a great concluding point. The rationale behind this series is that we hope it will generate some musical synergies between the guests who have appeared on the show. I know Douglas, Cameron and Blair Packham them have played together [00:20:00] as well as Oliver McQuade and Heather Gemmell, since they've been on the show. 

[00:20:03] Blake Melnick: And I'm hoping that this leads to other collaborative 

[00:20:06] Blake Melnick: endeavors in the future. Our aspirational goal at some point is to bring together all our guests and do something really special. A live show and 

[00:20:15] Blake Melnick: or record we're at the point now. where we've officially passed the jam on from our current artist in residence, Douglas, Cameron. to Tracy Jones. Douglas, a fond farewell. 

[00:20:25] Blake Melnick: It has been a real pleasure having you on the show. 

[00:20:27] Blake Melnick: and playing your music for all the intros and outros to our episodes. 

[00:20:31] Blake Melnick: I really appreciate both your time and the music, it's been great. Tracy, Jones. Welcome. You are now the current artist in residence and holder of the jam until the next round. So again, I really appreciate both of you joining me today. 

[00:20:45] Tracy Jones: I really appreciate it too. What an honor to be here and and thank you for giving me so much of your time. 

[00:20:50] Tracy Jones: and, rant on 

[00:20:52] Well, the jam has been officially passed from Douglas Cameron to Tracy Jones. I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I [00:21:00] did. To me, a good interview is one where I can develop a connection with my guest;  Where it becomes less of an interview and more of a conversation. And most important one where I am changed as a result of that conversation. Tracy Jones gave me a lot to think about when it comes to motivation, intentionality, and purpose. And his stories inspired me to reflect more deeply about the transformative power of music. For what it's worth. I'm going to be taking a break from the show next week to go on a bit of a ski around with two of my oldest childhood friends should be a blast. But we'll be back the following week for another episode of, for what it's worth. 

[00:21:43]