O'Lucky Man - Pass The Jam with guest Ben Hunter

The Pandemic has had a particularly acute effect on the Entertainment Industry. Performing artists of all kinds have been unable to practice their craft and engage in their passion for live performance. In the case of musicians, the situation is not all bad. Musicians have had time to turn their attention to songwriting, recording and to improving their brand - The business end of things, as it were

This has certainly been the case with our first guest on our #PasstheJamSeries, @Ben Hunter. Ben has just released a new record, called #Lucky. The record was recorded a number of years ago and during the Pandemic, Ben has taken the opportunity to re-record the material and release the record, and in doing so has had the opportunity to explore new voicings -  Jazz, Pop and Country overtones weave their way into Ben’s Americana roots.

In this episode Ben shares his inspiration for #Lucky; His musical influences, along with some stories from his life as a “Hard Core Troubadour”

Join us for #OLuckyMan…For What it’s Worth.

To read more about Ben, download his music and watch the latest video for the title track, "Lucky" https://forwhatitsworthpodcast.blogspot.com/2021/01/olucky-man-pass-jam-featuring-ben.html

If you are an aspiring new musician or an old pro and would like to be a guest on future episodes of #PasstheJam, please listen to https://www.buzzsprout.com/11516 to find out how.

And if you like the show, please share the episodes through your social media feeds; comment on the show blog http://forwhatitsworthpodcast.com ,  and drop us a review in your favourite podcast channel.

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Transcript

O'Lucky Man - Stereo Mix

Blake Melnick:  [00:00:00] Well that was lucky. The title track from Ben Hunter's new record by the same name. Hi Ben. Welcome to the space in between and thanks for agreeing to be a guest on the show. Great track by the way.  So I want to jump right in and talk about the record, starting with the title.

 What's the title all about?  

Ben Hunter: Well, the title is just the, just the title track. And it's basically that song. Is just about feeling lucky, being appreciative for having that special person in your life, who you know, actually all these songs were written about my girlfriend, Lauren, when I first met her  and it's just feeling that way, but no matter what else is going on in life, I'm lucky just because you're in my life.

Blake Melnick: So it's a love song. 

Ben Hunter: Oh, yeah,

Blake Melnick: So obviously Lauren was the inspiration for the record.  How long was this record in the works?

Ben Hunter:The longest amount of time. I mean I've recorded this record three times. This is a third, time's a charm. I, I [00:01:00] really wrote this record, you know, back in the arts and I try to, you know, I recorded it once at Joe's  garage, which is, you know,Frank Zappa's studio yeah. And and it wasn't, you know, it was kind of a, a fast deal that we had over there. We didn't have a lot of budget and it was, and I actually just listened to those tapes recently and I liked them a lot better, but for some reason, at the time we didn't like them at all, so it didn't get done and I tried to do it in my home studio and I didn't like that. And then finally, when I got to Nashville, It was this kind of song that the publishers I was talking to were really interested in. And so I found this great producer, uh, Josh Rowe and, um, and we, we made this record together and, , he's a huge part of it. I couldn't have done. Absolutely. Couldn't have done it without him. And I finally got this record done and. A way that I'm really, really happy with really proud of it sounds. I love the sound of this record. 

Blake Melnick: Yeah , it does a lot of variations in, in the songs and [00:02:00] stuff. I'll get to that in a moment.

But , so the, the record was recorded in Nashville?. 

Ben Hunter: Yeah. Yeah. 

Blake Melnick: Great. Well then, you know,  the birthplace of country music almost.  

Ben Hunter: Right. I guess there's like some country tinge to this and there's a couple there's one, tune, and I guess "you're the one" is really very kind of country. 

Blake Melnick: Yeah sure.

 And so what kind of record, were  you after, when you sat down to do this album, you said you've, you know, this is a long work in progress and you started it a number of years ago and, and then finally came back to it, but. What kind of record were you after? 

Ben Hunter: Well, I really just you know, I wanted to have the songs, done justice to, you know, I'm, I'm not, I'm not really a pop guy.

I mean, I sort of think of myself as an American songwriter type of thing, you know, any kind ofAmerican or North American music, right? I mean, I'm Canadian. 

Blake Melnick: Well, that fits yeah. 

Ben Hunter: I've been living in the States for a long time. And so anything with a guitar, you know, so like a folk rock, pop, jazz, whatever, [00:03:00] although pop has less and less guitars in it these days.

 So I just wanted to have something, you know, as a singer songwriter that really did justice to that. But I use a lot of jazz voicings in this record. And,  and so while it's not a jazz record per se, it's like I wanted it to have that. Andbecause they're love songs, I just wanted to be rich and having access and be simple at the same time and have this accessibility.

Then I think it does have, so I'm really happy with that. 

Blake Melnick: Yeah. There, as you say, there is a broad variety of styles, musical styles in each of the songs it's quite extraordinary.  Are all these songs original? Did you write them all? 

Ben Hunter: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't stop writing I have more material than we'll ever possibly come out.

Blake Melnick:  And who do you think that this new record is going to appeal to? You know, how would you describe the album in terms of, you've talked about it a little bit, but in terms of its musical style, it's influences who's going to want to listen to this record?

Ben Hunter:  I think anybody that likes, you know, [00:04:00] classic pop, rock, love, song music, you know, I used to tell people there was a time actually, when I, when I had a trio here in LA and we were playing all over the place and we were playing these songs, I used to say, you know, my little, my little glib catch word was like, well, it's like a Neil young meets Sting.

 you know, it was just, it was a fun thing to say that people seem to relate to you. And, um, part of that came because I was in a Walmart one time, and this lady that was working there was telling me, you remind me that guy, you know, and I was like, what?, who?, you know? And she was trying to, I finally finally figured out she was trying to say Sting, you know?

And so I was like, okay, so that was funny. And then I thought about it and because he does so many of those jazz songs, he did that whole. You know, Englishman in New York thing. 

Yeah.

 And I, you know, I grew up listening a wide variety of music and my dad had music on in the house all the time.

My dad was a total music nut. He loved music. He was a playwright, but he loved music. He played a lot of jazz [00:05:00] and a lot of classical. And my mom played a lot of folk and I played a lot of rock, you know,  there's a lot of music in our house. And so I was really influenced , By, you know, especially jazz.

I love jazz ballots. I really do. So I was kind of going for that. So I think anyone who likes, you know, Beatles ballads, you know, that's, that's everyone on the planet. Isn't it. So, yeah. 

Blake Melnick: And is what's different about this record from your previous albums?

Ben Hunter: It is much softer than most of them. I've, I've done some acoustic records before, but the acoustic records I've done before.

When I first moved to LA, I did this record called Brim, which I'm going to reissue this year actually. And it's a very low fi, but great. Like I used to always have a problem with this record Brim because it was very very low fi and I think it was to Rob, you know, but anytime I would actually listen to it.

I'd be like, wow, that's really good. You know? Cause it was, it did, that was really recorded well as well. And it got on a bunch of radio stations down here. But it was very [00:06:00] much more in the Neil Young introspective psychedelic kind of vein almost. And uh, and then, you know, I've had a power trio here for years and I do a lot of really hard rock stuff.

These are really the best. I think, you know, pop love songs, you know, that I've written and they're all real, you know, they all, they're all written out of real experiences. I had,  when I, when I met Lauren, so, 

Blake Melnick: right, right. And so this is the same band you've played with for some time.

Now, do you want to give a bit of a shout out to the other band members?

Ben Hunter:  No, definitely not. No, I'm just kidding.

No, I actually, the thing is, is Josh and I and then my buddy Armand, you know, really well, really Josh and I mostly played on the record and I've done previous versions with the green brothers, you know, Tom Green and Dave Green, and we had a trio together here.

 Then, you know, my other band wasn't really involved in this record, that, which is Solar Flare with Sam, Sam Pal, and. And Jeremy Nance, great [00:07:00] musicians. Yeah, I've got one of those records coming out much later this year, but yeah. So, so it was, it was really, it was really one of these, I think it was Josh and I in the studio really doing it. And Josh is a super talented guy. So, you know, he actually played drums and bass and, and I did all the guitars and vocals.  So it was, it was very simple affair, but, um, you know, he and I have been playing in this, in this club together quite a bit and we just hit it off.

And so we  we managed to get this thing just, just to, you know, I, I just really was grateful to find him. It was fantastic that I found him. He was amazing. 

Blake Melnick: Good, and you, but you've typically played with a three-piece band. Yes? You liked the three-piece sound, the stripped down sound? 

Ben Hunter: I do. I mean, I do partly because yeah, I love playing with the three-piece, but partly it's just the pragmatics of like, you know, when you're not a big famous stadium band or whatever, having three guys, it's a lot easier to [00:08:00] organize it’s like that simple in some ways.

But I also do like it in that I'd like there to be some space in the records. And then I also like it that everyone, you know, if you've got good players  in a three-piece. You Know, everyone really has space to really do what they want. You know, your part really counts. It's not, it doesn't get lost in the wall of sound or whatever.

 Like in Solar Flare my power trio, I always joke that, you know, Sam, the drummer and I were the, were the King of Fill like if there's a space there’s a race to fill it, Which is fun, but, you know, so yeah. You get to really play your instrument and really be heard. And I like that too, as well as the logistical convenience of it.

Blake Melnick: Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. So what do you like most about this record and what's your favorite track? 

Ben Hunter: Yeah, as I, as I've said before, I think what I like most about this is the sound. I think we got a really great sound. And it's really. It's a really tight record and I'm really proud of the, you know it's definitely the best record I've made sonically.

[00:09:00] And, um, and then my favorite track is,  "I'm a fool" and, , it's sort of the jazziest track. And I, for the reasons, I guess I said earlier, like it's the beat to me. It's a beautiful love song. It's a laid back jazz tune. I get to throw some guitar licks at it, and I love the, you know, a lot of ninth chords and, and I just like it.

It's just, it's just one of the, to me, it's one of those classic kind of mellow jazz type torch songs.  So that's, that's my favorite track and that's why I like it, you know? 

Blake Melnick: Right, right. Okay. Well, I want to now change directions a little bit and jumped to the making of the record during this particularly unusual time in human history.

But COVID has obviously been difficult for the industry in general. I mean, you know, it's devastating for live entertainment of all kinds, but. How did the current pandemic, uh, impact your creative processes, your thought processes?  This record,  what was the influence of all of that going on?

[00:10:00] Ben Hunter: Well, the record fortunately was done by the time COVID hit. So we had just finished it and that was lucky, but so to speak. But , you know, also the way that things changed though, was  I had just come to back to LA and gotten another, a new studio, uh, in my old complex at Hollywood and Vine.

And I was set up to do a bunch more recording and stuff, and that just ended, you know, that just, we had to shut the building. No one was allowed in it. Everyone was shelter in place we all had to just bail. And so I started to set up in Lauren's living room, you know, figure out how I could play here.

 So it just, first of all, it just, as you said, it killed everything. Just no live anything, no. Getting together with people. No nothing. , and for me as a writer in a, you know, as a singer songwriter, That's okay. I can keep going. And in, in what it really did for me was it forced me to do a lot of things that I normally avoid because I prefer playing with the band.

I prefer playing with other guys. I'm not a person that [00:11:00] just wants to make music on my laptop in my bedroom. I want to, I want to get together with people. I want to play off of other people. I want there to be a synergy. I want the whole to be greater than the sum of the parts.

Yeah.  Yeah, but it's like, I had a lot of stuff that I needed to do online that I would just avoid and go off and jam with people instead. 

Blake Melnick: Right. 

Ben Hunter: Because it's a lot more fun. And and also, you know, I really committed to promoting not only this record, but some reissues and some other new projects, I'm really promoting them digitally in ways that I really also just a blown off really, quite honestly, I've just blown off in the past because , I just enjoy playing more.

Blake Melnick: Right. 

And , I don't have anybody breathing down my neck going, we gotta get that record out. 

Yeah. So on the one hand, it must be difficult, obviously not being able to tour the album and play live. Although I gather you might've done some, some of that already ahead of time but it has that given you the opportunity to focus on the business side of your career, I guess.

Ben Hunter: That's [00:12:00] exactly right. and I mean, as a, you know, as an independent artist, anybody who's listening to this who is knows, I mean, Oh my gosh, you know, you gotta wear so many hats there's so much to do. It's endless. And, and it's great and everything, but when you're a performer that you like to perform, and it's just so much easier to write a new song and go out and perform, show it to the guys or whatever. So, yeah, it has definitely forced me to do that. It's been really good.

Blake Melnick:  I guess. That's the, as you described the natural process, I mean, you, you release a record and then you start to promote it. And obviously the best way to promote it is to get out there and play live. And that's been certainly curtailed, for most musicians. So everything has sort of changed a little bit and you see some very creative things being done by bands, whether it be drive-thru concerts simulcasts, webcast conferences, I've sat in on a few, they've been sort of Interesting a bit weird,  not sure. I loved it. It's, it's hard to be texting in your applause to, to the artist so I can see it on the screen, 

Ben Hunter: it’snot the same visceral experience

Blake Melnick: [00:13:00] isn't um, but you know, I think the, the music industry has been forever impacted by this pandemic. I mean, there've been some fundamental changes that you've seen that will continue when we come out of this?

Ben Hunter: I really don't think so. I think it's going to go back to what it was. I think, you know, for the, the reason that you just described, you know, there's nothing like live music. There's nothing like being there. Whether it's in a club or a stadium or a theater, or, you know, a big concert hall, whatever it's.

It's exciting it's like the, just the volume, the sound, the liveness of it. It's, there's electricity, you know, when everyone knows, you know, when you go to a great concert, when you get to do a great concert, there's just nothing like it. It's transcendent. And, uh you just can't get that over the web.

You just can't. Yeah. 

 So I think, you know, I think a lot of people, I mean, we're, we're already recording remotely and stuff like this before the pandemic, like if necessary people just [00:14:00] send their parts back and forth and, and that kind of thing if they want to.

So I think , that like every other industry has shown that yeah, that's eminently doable and that will continue. And maybe. There will be a greater incidence of that in, especially in particular recording environments, like pop environments where pop records are not about live performance at all they're about construction, you know? 

Blake Melnick: Right, right. 

Ben Hunter: And crafting in the computer. People have been, you know, remotely playing in their bass parts of their drum parts or whatever for years now anyway. And so. There may be a little bit more of that, but I think.

I think live will absolutely come back. There's no question. 

Blake Melnick: Yeah. I mean, I know it's something I certainly miss.  It's been, it's been far too long since I've got to see a live show. And as you say, it's that shared experience it's so important and the socialization as much with people that are also at the concert in the crowd with you sharing exactly what you're experiencing and yeah that's missing. And it's really tough. I think, I just don't know when it's all [00:15:00] going to come back , and, and in what context, there's been lots of conversations about,  how we're going to ensure that everybody getting into a show has been innoculated , or they're going to have to show a pass or some sort of document to say, yes, I've had my shot and therefore I can get in.

I don't know how it's all gonna work. Any thoughts on that? 

Ben Hunter: Well, , I think it'll all shake out in the long run. I think in the short-term it will be like that. I mean, my friend up in the Bay area just got her first shot today. So in January here, early January they gave her a card, her nodulation card and said, don't lose that because you're going to need it for your follow-up shot in four weekand also it shows that you've had it, you know? And so there probably will be the cards yeah. And all that kind of stuff.  In the beginning coming back, it'll take some sort of system, you know, that's above my pay grade. Right, right, right. You know, some kind of system like that, we'll, we'll be instituted.

No doubt. And I mean, one of the things [00:16:00] too, is that, you know, one of the things that she was actually saying to me is that health practitioners up there are concerned that people will still practice caution even after they'd gotten the vaccine because. No, this thing is mutating. We really don't know that much about it.

Right. It's not a time. Once you get the vaccine to just go like, Whoa, Oh, you know, Oxenfree, I'm home free. Yeah. It's not going to be like that. So you gotta, you so it will change things a little bit in that regard. You know, there's so many little clubs have closed or will close that it's not going to be the same as far as there's not going to be the same, you know, on that level.

It'll take right.  But the thing is, is once it opens up again, once the world opens up again, new places will open up.  There's always an appetite for that. There there's just, as you said, like you can't replace human and social interaction. People crave it, they want it, they need it.

We all do. Yeah, it will come back. Yeah. 

Blake Melnick:  I wonder if we'll see a return to the coffee shop culture of this early sixties, because they're the only [00:17:00] places  , that are still able to stay open. It seems yeah, you're it. You make a really interesting point that there will be new types of venues I would think you're right, because many of the other ones will close. 

Ben Hunter: . Yeah, absolutely. I mean, if plenty have closed you know, when you talk about the coffee shop venue, that's a huge part of the Nashville scene. Right. Which was really fun when I was there.

Is that.  You can show up anywhere and sign up to play. And then, you know, you get people get to know you, they put you on a songwriter night and you're up there for an hour with a couple other people and you play a song. I play a song, they play song. We go around in a circle like that until we've each played three or four or five songs and it's real low maintenance. Like you don't have to load in and soundcheck and do all that, you know? So, and it's very  it's very communal and everybody hangs out and you get to meet a lot of people. So, and a bunch of those clubs have closed that were mainstays in the Nashville scene.

 But they, you know, they will, there will be other people that will come along, you know, when the time is right. When it's open, when you can open it [00:18:00] up again there's storefronts to be had and people will, people will start new venues as the demand requires or demands.

Blake Melnick:  do you foresee a huge amount of material coming out once this pandemic is over it?

In other words, our musicians like yourself sitting at home and writing and writing songs and holding them back and waiting for the world to open up again.  Do you see like a whole flood of new music hitting the market post pandemic? 

Ben Hunter: I, I haven't thought about it that much, but I think so it's funny to say how this affects people.

My friends that, you know, that are doing what I do. Yes. Definitely. Those people are all creating. They're all getting ready.  They all want to bring stuff out. And so yes is the answer to that. Then there's other people that I don't know as well, but who I am, you know, I'm connected to online or, or whatever.

And it's hard to say what those people are doing , you know what I mean? It's like, for me, this has been, it's really weird. Like for me, it has been, as I've said, like really focusing and really, I got a ton of stuff coming out [00:19:00] and I have other friends like that too. There are other people I know that really - it's psychologically been challenging for them you know, the depression thing can be really big and and it depends what kind of writer you are  and that kind of thing too. Um, I've had other things going on in my life, you know, coincidentally that have caused me to write a lot too, but but I think probably yes, you know, moral more or less, I would say that I would expect yeah, there's gotta be a, you know, a ton of stuff that, that people are working on. That it's going to come out. So yeah, I would, I would guess that there will be. Yeah. Yeah. 

Blake Melnick: Well, I think it has been a creative period for a lot of people. I know it has been for me as well. I mean, I've written more read more this podcast really, you know, came out of something that I wanted to experiment with and at the time to do it and, and so I was able to pursue that. So  I think you're right. It'll be an interesting time. We may see some significant changes in the music industry. Not so much structurally, as you said earlier, but more creatively  Different types of music. And there's certainly lots to inspire songwriting at this juncture in time, there was lots going on much as there [00:20:00] was in the, you know, in the mid to late sixties when, everything was sort of happening and  in the hippie generation and a lot of social protest and things like that. I think there's so much material. It'll be interesting to see. I'm actually fairly excited about it. Talking about it right now with you. 

Ben Hunter: Yeah. No, absolutely. yeah, I mean, that's one of the things that certainly made me think about too, is just really taking off the gloves and, and writing whatever I want.

 It's funny because this record was sort of the culmination of a process that I got into when I moved to LA. And I really decided okay, I'm in LA now I gotta really work at my craft of writing pop songY  I consciously thought that. And so I started doing it and I think these are the best songs like this is, this was sort of the combination of that.

And there's that, there's that other side of you, that is the really creative side that goes, like I don't want to be bound by structure and form. And I had already been through that I'd been in sort of. Not really jam bands. I've never really been in a jam band, but you guys know that I was a very, [00:21:00] very influenced by Neil Young and stuff.

So the the long solos were always any band that I was in was an excuse to do long solos it's like put in a first and then hit it. Yeah. Wow.

Let's get to some serious, you know, guitar playing  And so that was another kind of indulgence that I allowed myself when I was younger. Cause I was just like, I can't be told what to do. And then I was like, well, maybe I could be told a little bit. I realized I needed to learn the craft a little better and all that and did that.

 But then , the next step to me is doing something really creative, you know, taking the experience that I have. and I'm sure there's a lot of other people out there thinking like that too. And really looking at what's in the, in the, the arena and the public forum.

And, and cause I I'm not, I'm not one of these guys that is stuck in the past. I really like new stuff. And even if it's different and it's like, there's always the best in the rest, you know? And I had this great experience. If I could say this \ some years ago I bought a 65 [00:22:00] Ford ranch wagon, station wagon after I'd sold my hearse, I didn't, I didn't want to drive my hearse anymore.

I got the station wagon because I still needed to car. I didn't want to get a band, you know, it's, it's so ubiquitous, you know, the musicians van. And so, um, I had this cool old, and it had a T-Bird engine in it, a 390 it was like a great little. Station wagon that really moved at all it had was an am radio.

They'd only had an am radio. And so the only channel I could get, I could get one jazz station and I could get the Disney channel for kids, you know, and it was the craziest thing. It was so much fun because first of all, you get Backstreet boys and this kind of stuff. And. Brittany at the time and I had never listened to that stuff so I was like, fine, I'll listen to it. You know? And some of it was, some of it was really good. Like there was some great pop music, and then there was stuff that was like, wow, this music is just designed to distract you from the fact that there's just, it's not about anything it's like. But then you'd also hear things like chickens singing, you know, Glen Miller's in the mood.

Like [00:23:00] it's really funny. Yeah. And , so I'm always open  to new music. And I've never kidded myself that this is anything but a popular medium, you know? So  if time's changed and sounds change and people are listening to other things and I'm, I'm not against that.  I'm looking for my own way to be a part of that and what I can contribute, you know, what I can do. That's authentically me and comes out of my traditions and also somewhere I want to go.

Blake Melnick: Right.

 But I haven't gone yet. That is suggested by this new stuff that no one else has gone to either. So I'm real excited about that. I think that's a great point you're making like, there's there's opportunity for that for sure.

 Yeah. And you sound very much like, you know, you're influence Neil young. I mean, Neil young, one of the things that you have to admire the most about Neil young is he's never stood still. He's always looked forward to it, you know, not that I like everything he's done, but boy, I have tremendous respect for the fact that he's challenging himself in new mediums and new approaches and new sounds.

I mean, [00:24:00] he's, he truly is an inspiration in that regard. 

Ben Hunter: He's are real artist. and I think the thing about him is that he's really about ideas, you know? So I think, I don't know the guy I've read a lot of his interviews and stuff and,  it's like he gets obsessed with a certain idea and he just has to go deep on that, and so if it that's always a good thing, like if it's about an idea I don't know how you go that wrong with that because it's, it's a, you're already conceptually at a higher level,  and you're certainly not. Yeah. Retreading. So, yeah. 

Blake Melnick: Good point. Well, listen, I'm going to hand the mic over to Mike CO's Cameron Brown. He might be asleep now, but we'll move on to the next section of the interview.

Cameron Brown: So let me start off with Ben asking you how long you've been a professional musician, a professional artist 

Ben Hunter: since I was 18. So, you know, a long time, [00:25:00]

Cameron Brown:  So we've known each other for a long time.  When would you say you actually did you start right off the bat getting paid?

Ben Hunter: Yeah, we did the first gig we ever did, which was very , it was modest and whatever, but, um, the very first pro gig I did was at the, if you want to call it, that was that the Turning Point in yeah, 81. , we charged at the door and I think we all made 20 bucks. Okay. That was pretty cool I thought

Cameron Brown: 20 bucks when a lot farther back then, too. When did you know that this was what you wanted to do with your life? Like, but this was going to be your career? 

Well, when did I know that?  You know, it's funny because between 16 and 18 is when I really made the commitment.

Ben Hunter: But then I sort of, , I took a year off, like when I really got out of drugs and all that stuff, I took a year off and I kind of threw the baby out with the bath water.  Because the two were so [00:26:00] intertwined for me, music and that lifestyle that and I left the country, like I got this opportunity to go to Japan an d and teach English and do all that. It was I had a lot of friends over there and so. , and I sort of thought I fancy that I would become a writer and I I'm, and what quit quitting was the best thing I could've ever done, because it really proved to me that I really am a songwriter because I didn't write anything else, one really contrived and very bad,  children's short story it was like, Oh my God.  And I've done a lot of reading in my life.  That's just not the way the creative force comes through me. It comes through me through songs and I mean to go back further. It's like, I thought of being rockstar I'm not a rock star really, but rock musician, you know, I, I thought of that from the time I was six years old, I was like, this is what I want to do and got a little sidetracked into hockey for him.

 I remember that great thing. When we first started like listening to music and, you know, playing Neil and it was, you were kind of moving away from that. I remember going to you, but [00:27:00] I thought you were married to hockey. But yeah, no, I remember it was like, Brown, I'm married to hockey.  I was really, I'm married, you know, I'm also a very I've had to allow that people tell me, you know, that I am an intense person, which I don't relate to that I I'm always trying to ratchet myself up,  which is horrifying to the people around me they're like, no, no more, you know, anything I've gotten into, and those are really the only two things I've really gotten into in life. And I get into them really all the way I I'm very, I guess that's another attraction for me with Neil instead of people also I don't, I don't relate to myself this way, but I have friends say, well, you know, you're really extreme.

I'm like, really, like, I don't think of myself that way. I always think of what I haven't done yet, you know, or how I couldn't get that extra yard or whatever. But yeah, you know, there's always another step. But I've come to recognize that's part of my personality. I'm just, you know, I just really get into it.

Cameron Brown: Hey, what experiences were [00:28:00] you able to draw upon in order to make the commitment to being a working musician,

Ben Hunter:  I just, you know, I  believe in myself and I don't know why, but I do. Like, I just, I just feel like I could do that and let's face it it's like I was brought up in a showbiz family. I was, should've been on stage since I was two years old. You know, my dad was a playwright and a director and shoved me on stage, you know, or my brother or sister, anytime you needed a kid performer. And I was given a lot of lessons when I was young in all and exposed to all that stuff.

And I was really encouraged at it. And also told, I think Brown, I think like we were born at a time when really the sky was the limit. And I think that's been one of the psychologically challenging things for people of our generation is that we were raised to believe, and we were told you can do anything.

Yeah. And funnily enough, like starting from around the time we were in our twenties on, it was actually a lot of diminished opportunities as opposed to the [00:29:00] sky's the limit. So we were sort of set up to be like your little joyster, you do whatever you want. And then it was like, Oh, except not that and like, Oh, you know, well, no, this isn't really well. We kind of changed that. And so you can't do, you know, and, and so that's been psychologically, I find very interesting. But  I don't know if it comes from before this life or, you know, my programming as a kid, but,  I just felt like, you know, it's like Jim Carrey says his dad taught him, gave him the gift of teaching him you could fail taking the safe route, you know? And I just always believed that I was like, well, people do make it yeah. 

I remember saying to  my late father that I was fortunate enough to get into the LA school of drama, Linda ash was going and it was great and would he help pay the way there? And he was like, well, you know, sure. I know when I'm thinking of, and again world renowned physician said, well, why don't we just wait, let's, let's give this a year or two. And then if you, if I need a bit more of a boost and we'll spend the money, it's  yeah, it's not the same career, dad.

You don't go into a, you [00:30:00] know, university and do your four, eight years of med school and come out. So at least you had that with your folks, your folks were aware of the realities out there, right? Yeah. I mean, funnily enough I had certain amount of that myself because it was, you know, my, you know, my grandfather was, was more like your dad my grandfather was a businessman and can, you know, Torontonian pillar of the establishment and all that junk, 

Cameron Brown: that old school, old school. 

Ben Hunter: Yeah, patriarch. And so, you know, and that rubbed off a lot of my dad. And so my dad worked for his father and made enough money that then he could pursue his theater career and still live in the style to which he was accustomed he could support us and all that sort of thing. Um, but I kind of thought, well, I'm the next generation this is all I want to do. I don't have a family not then. And I don't know either, but, um, No. I just thought it just seemed like a logical progression to me that that's what we can do,  in Toronto, as you know, you know, from talking to your relatives who were [00:31:00] came the generation before us.

Such a straight place where those guys growing up in the fifties, forties and fifties . And , my dad said that he was like, well, there was no question. I wouldn't be an actor because the only people that I knew who were actors it didn't matter if their most intimate loved one was dying in their arms, if the call came for work, they would have to go because there wasn't a work, you know, This wasn't a way to live, but then that wasn't true when we were coming along we, things, there was, there were a lot of ways to survive and it's, in some ways it was way more competitive because it was another thing my dad used to say, which is like, it was easier to get good jobs when I was young, because there weren't that many people alive you guysUhave a lot of competition for everything you're doing,  yeah, but we also came out of like, whether it was what you were doing with the Urchins of Menace and, you know, in comedy and theater and everything like that or music, you know that, that punk era that we came out of it the, in early 80, just a dream, because you just got to do whatever you want it to do. And it could be as down and [00:32:00] dirty and storefront and low rent, low budget, nobody cared it was just go,, do e you know, and, uh, I'm so grateful in retrospect. So it was like, yeah, everyone knew you could get a cheap ass place. Pardon me, somewhere and, and crash there and and I couch surfed in Toronto, like, I just crashed with friends and stuff like that too.  , when I was. No really just living hand to mouth and sure was great. 

Cameron Brown: What  experiences growing up and in your life, are you able to use to help futher your goals? You know, 

Ben Hunter: another way that Neil was a  big inspiration. I mean, he just got in his hearse and drove to LA and he made it and it was like, I do have to say that it's like, you know, 10 years after I'd been living in LA and slogging away, it just like  it didn't occur to me.

 Like Neil drives to LA two weeks later, he's in Buffalo Springfield opening for the birds, you know? And I'm like, yeah, that's not exactly how it's gone for me you know.

So she had an extraordinary [00:33:00] that he's been at basically been in the A list ever since, you know, 

Cameron Brown: godfather of grunge. 

Ben Hunter: Yeah. And like, yeah his career has been amazing, but that doesn't happen for where that's a tiny, tiny percentage of people that, that, that happens for, but I just sort of thought , I'm just that kind of person, I just thought. Well, I'll do something make it I'm going to make it somehow, you know, and even when I didn't make it, I just kept doing it anyway.  So yeah, for sure. Yeah. And when things and things did work out for me initially, when I first came here and I had a record on the radio and it was in top 40 stations and and stuff like that , that I made myself and, you know , and then when, when I got into the music business and people not paying you in this , in the way that music business, like I also, like Neil didn't have an Elliot Roberts or a David Geffen who had my back, you know?

Cameron Brown: Yeah, for sure. That's definitely helpful.  

Ben Hunter: It's it's key, you know , I mean, after a certain period of time, I made a study of all that and realized everyone who makes it has that has [00:34:00] someone who has their back to a degree. And I haven't never had that person, but. No, it doesn't, it's never stopped me either.

Cameron Brown:  For sure, for sure

Ben Hunter:  so it really just my confidence in my misplaced , misguided confidence and optimism and my love of it. I just love to do it. And I always felt like I was lucky to travel a lot in my life. And I just realized how few people have the choice in what they're going to be able to do, and I have the choice and that's, to me, such a privilege and such a luxury, like I'm, I feel like I owe it to everybody, including myself to pursue it to the enth degree, because I'm one of the few people that actually has the freedom to do that, you know

Cameron Brown:  exactly. Exactly.  You have been a bit of what Steve Earl would call a Hardcore Troubadour where there points in your career, where you thought about "ah screw it I'm fed up" time to toss it in the towel enough is enough. 

Ben Hunter: No, like I [00:35:00] really have a very perverse personality. when it would get really bad and when I had some , I could tell you stories like this, the junk that's happened to me that that's really not just, you can't believe like how many things have gotten wrong that could should've or could've gone. Right. But they just didn't work out or whatever. I just get more stubborn about it. I'm just kinda, I'm that kind of person I'm just like, yeah. Says, you know, I really am like, I just, yeah, it just makes me more committed. I'm like, I just won't be stopped, you know?

Cameron Brown: Yeah. 

And, uh, and I have been stopped, you know, I almost, when the pneumonia almost killed me  I do remember that because that was a little bit after my accident. I remember a few years of it within each other of near fatal deaths yet. Now tell me what have been some of your, first of all, your favorite shows  and then secondly, your favorite venues. 

Ben Hunter:  one of my favorite shows is that first one at the turning point, like that was [00:36:00] a freaking great show.It was done. It's so great. When you do your first show at everybody that, you know, comes to see you and we were completely out of our minds as well. And it was, but it was, I, I really enjoyed that. And then I guess when I was living in Minnesota, We played like seven nights a week, you know, four sets a night of all origin material.

Yeah  just month after month after month. And I've never been in better shape performance wise. Like, you know, you know what that's like when you're, you're just on and you just hit every note, every mark, every cue, and your voice is so strong and powerful. It's so conditioned. And that was just we just did endless shows that were great. And, and I mean, when you play that much too, that's one of the interesting things is I remember we made this rule when I was in that band where it was like, you never allowed to say anything to anybody about how the show was when you come off stage, because we would do shows that we thought were amazing and come off stage and everybody I'd be like, well, you know, maybe next time.

[00:37:00] And then we would do shows that we were like, Oh my God, that sucked. You know, that was terrible. He come upstairs. He was like, you're a great , and as a performer, if you say we suck be they'll follow you. The audience will go, will like lose their enthusiasm and they'll go along with you.

So you have to wait to say  thank you 

for sure and venues, like, when there be like maybe a top three venues you've played in your career that you say. Yeah I love that place. I did love playing at the Turning Point. It was terrible. You always got shocked and  the sound was terrible.

You couldn't, there was sound, at least you could hear like, I've played places that we played this club in Chicago that had no monitors. Like you couldn't hear yourself  I liked that club, here in LA, what would I say?  I don't really have a, I guess, a favorite, but I've done so much touring too, that it's like, there's a lot of places  I've only played once. Yeah, never come back to you.  I'm afraid I don't have a great, I wish I could say Carnegie Hall, you know, that's wonderful, but [00:38:00] 

Cameron Brown:  I wanted to ask you which bands musicians have inspired you the most. I mean, we've talked about Neil, but other than Neil, who would you say?  Was a real big influence. 

Ben Hunter: Dylan is huge influence still. Whenever I hear Bob Dylan, I just start writing.

Like he, he makes me write  - there's just something about his connection to that. You know, that stream that he's got going is just unreal and it opens me up every time. I'm a huge Jeff Beck fan. I'm very influenced by Jeff Beck, Santana to you back in the day. 

 I like Les Paul. I like I love Screaming, Jay Hawkins, big. I love that dude.  I love the Stones and, I like Jack White. I had a sort of weird love, hate with him for a little bit, you know,  I don't know that guy either, but I love his tone.

He gets great tone and I love his intensity and what he's doing. He's got some really cool things and that guy has not made any mistakes. Like everything he's done has been a cool idea and he's [00:39:00] managed to do it, you know? So that's, 

Cameron Brown: I must admit to being, being a fan of his as well.

 Well, besides music, what else would you say inspires you?

Ben Hunter:  What inspires me is truthfully it's like if I go to an art gallery, which I do, you know, don't want to make myself seem that high brow cause I'm not, but I go to art galleries and that makes me right. When I see great art, it makes me right.  It vaults me into that, that place. You know? I mean, I don't need to do that to write I write anyway, but I like doing that, that great art inspires me because to me is a great art overwhelms you and you just start like, wow  it could be anything right. And everything else, you make excuses for everything else. You're like, well, you know, I like the color or like, Oh, you know, he's got good tone  but really it's just not that great. And that's why you're trying to find something good to say about it, but stuff that is truly great there's just no denying it. It just overwhelms you, you know? And so putting myself in front of that stuff or [00:40:00] where I might. Find some of that stuff is one thing I do to inspire me. 

Cameron Brown: All right, man it's been great chatting with you and we'll head back to Blake.

Ben Hunter: Yep. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks so much, Cam. 

Cameron Brown: You're welcome. 

Blake Melnick: That was great. Ben, it was great to hear those stories and hear about all your influences well, listen we're approaching the end of this interview, but I did want to bind it up with some other questions for you.

What's next for Ben? Edward? Do you have any other projects in the works? 

Ben Hunter: Oh yeah, I've got. I've got so much stuff that's coming out. I've got a few. , one of my power trio, Solar Flare. We're gonna, I'm gonna release a record of ours in the fall. I think of this year, I've got a couple of records that I'm going to re-release that,  as I've sort of alluded to before, I never really gave the promotion to that they deserved. So one is a sort of a hybrid record I did in Montreal years ago with another band of mine which is called Land of the Tall Pine.

That's probably coming out next after I finished with Lucky [00:41:00] and then Gold Mine, I was just talking about that's being remixed and I'm going to re-release that. And then I have a ton material that I've been writing over the past, two years, really my last year in Nashville and this year all through COVID and I'm going to sort through that and I'm going to, I'm going to pull a record out of that I'm and release that maybe for next Christmas or something like that. So I've got a ton of stuff and I'm shooting a ton of video. I've got to like.  I'm just doing a lot of things. COVID has kind of freed me up to just, I like, you know I did do a film degree at Miguel at one point and so I can shoot from the hip. Like I can move really fast if I'm allowed to.  So in COVID like, you know, working by myself, , I can do a lot because,  I just,  I know what I want. I know how to get it. And,  I have enough tools right now that I can, I can do that stuff so, yeah, I've got a ton of stuff coming

Excellent. 

Blake Melnick: And where can people find the record? Lucky as well as your other stuff how can they access this? [00:42:00] 

Ben Hunter:  So Lucky's available on all the streaming platforms you can get on Amazon, on Spotify, on anywhere that you know of it's there. And if it's not, you know, hit me up on my website@benhunter.org, you can contact me through there and  I'll refer you to a place. But then , just Google Ben, Hunter, Lucky, it'll come up at it's available at all kinds of independent retailers if you want an actual CD 

Blake Melnick: Great and we will put all this up on the blog page, so our listeners can access that as well as some other links that Ben will provide us with. So I have one final question and it's really for our audience and that is, based on all your experiences. What advice would you give to aspiring musicians?

Ben Hunter: You know, I think actually in this day and age, I wouldn't be too afraid, like you want to get paid, of course , but my dad used to have this say it's like better to be used than never to be used at all.  One of the things I realized a long time ago, one of the things that helped [00:43:00] fuel Beatlemania was the fact that everybody and their uncle made some kind of Beatles merchandise and sold it. So you could get paid for all that stuff. So. Yeah, no. I mean like, you know, you see how the kids loved it, but their parents loved it too. Cause they could make beetle trays or lunchboxes or whatever and Brian Epstein, wasn't really on top of all of that. And so a lot of bootleg  and, uh, so I would say Kraft like learn what's out there, but be yourself and, you know, get yourself out there. And don't worry about, don't really worry about being taken advantage of, because even if you are, you've got time to recover,  better to get your stuff out there. And that it's known that it's you, you know, as long as your name's on it so that you can, and in the mix, you know, because the truth is , as you know, Blake, it's like all of these guys, yeah Jagger and the Stones may make a hundred plus million every time they go out now, but there was a long time when they were in the red. 

Blake Melnick: Right.

Ben Hunter: Everybody was [00:44:00] making money except them, you know?  And it's a long haul, , to make, if you're in it to make money good luck you like, there's the old saying How do you make a million dollars in jazz ? start with 2 million and it's like, you gotta, you gotta be doing it because you love it.

Blake Melnick:  Great, great advice. Well, listen, thanks a lot, Ben. I really appreciate your time and coming on the show and sharing the new record and, your experiences and your life story that's fantastic. We're going to end this episode with  another track from your record called "No One Needs to Know", and we will be playing these tracks and others in future episodes of For What it's Worth and The Space In Between. 

Join us next week , where my guest will be Floyd Marienescu, CEO of C4 Media and Founder of UBI Works...For What it's Worth