Music Man Part 1 with guest Tom Locke

Welcome to this week's episode of #ForWhatIt'sWorthwithBlakeMelnick, called #MusicMan part 1, with my guest, @TomLocke, music fan, and author of an amazing new book called #MomentsinTime #MIT.  Click HERE for the blog post for this episode.

Click HERE to purchase a signed copy of Moments in Time at a special price

We have been featuring excerpts from Tom's book on #TheSpaceinBetween and we have been running a little music trivia contest for our listeners. Winners will be placed in a draw to win a signed copy of Tom's book. You can find out more and participate by joining our For What it’s Worth - the Podcast Series Facebook page ...For what it's worth.

We have a number of #ShoutOuts as well as exciting announcements about our past #ArtistinResidence #BlairPackham at the conclusion of this episode, so make sure you hang in for these. We will also be posting the information on our show blog  https:forwhatitsworthpodcast.com following the release of the episode

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Transcript

Part 1

[00:00:00] Blake Melnick: Well, welcome to this week's episode of For What it's Worth called “Music Man”. I'm your host, Blake Melnick, and our guest this week is Tom Locke, who has just published a new book called Moments in Time: A Musical Odyssey, which traces the history of rock and roll from the early forties right through to the seventies.

[00:00:54] Tom, welcome to the show. So nice to have you on and congratulations on the new book. It was absolutely [00:01:00] fantastic. Thank you for providing me with an advanced copy. I loved it. 

Before we get into a discussion specific to the book, I wanted to get a little bit of information about you. I know you live in Vancouver, but where were you born and where did you grow up?

[00:01:14] Tom Locke: First and foremost, thanks for interviewing me on this show, very honored to be here. I was born and raised in Toronto and grew up in the suburbs of Willowdale, just north of the core. You probably know that. Yeah. Yeah. And then I did my kindergarten, public school, junior high, and high school all in that area.

[00:01:37] Subsequently I went to York University for eight years and enjoyed my time there, and for those growing up in that neighborhood will probably remember Dominion Stores because I worked there as a clerk part-time that paid for my expenses through my school years.

[00:01:53] Blake Melnick: Yeah. I haven't thought about Dominion in years. That's a great memory. You've had a fascinating and very [00:02:00] diverse career. You've been in sports, film, business, coaching, and of course, music. What are some of the key tenants or beliefs that have guided you throughout your career?

[00:02:11] Tom Locke: That's a really great question. When I was putting together some courses for UBC, one specifically included creating your competitive edge. I had to reflect on this and came up with the acronym that is truly my mantra, which is L.A.F.F. That's L A F F. The L stands for Listen.

[00:02:32] The A stands for Adapt––in today's vernacular, you might've heard the word pivot. F is Follow-through, and the last F is Fun with purpose. 

[00:02:46] Blake Melnick: With all of these experiences in your background, what's the best advice you were ever given in terms of your career and how you should approach life.

[00:02:56] Tom Locke: Well, that is actually an easy one because it was ingrained in me [00:03:00] as a young kid growing up by my parents, particularly my mother, she said, if you say you're gonna do something, do it and do it to the best of your ability. And for me, it made so much sense and I've tried to live by that. In fact, it's even morphed into something that I used to, project in my classes. I called it the five P’s: Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance.

[00:03:24] Blake Melnick: A sage piece of advice. One of the things I want to talk about before we get into the book is something I read that you had written, and

[00:03:32] I can't remember whether I read it on your blog, or it was part of the intro to the book. But the pandemic has been really tough on us all, and the world is zero vocally changed. But you see the challenge of COVID as an opportunity; tell me about that. 

[00:03:46] Tom Locke: It truly was. COVID did become, certainly a challenge for everyone, but behind every challenge, there is an opportunity.

[00:03:55] And the opportunity for me was a reduction in travel. More time at [00:04:00] home, and time to move some things from the corner of my desk to the front of my desk. One of those is to write this book that I've been- I wouldn’t say procrastinating on it, I just haven't had the real time to put forward on it for, oh gosh, the past five to six, seven years.

[00:04:18] So, this gave me a great opportunity to spend the time writing Moments in Time. I guess I got to thank COVID, in some ways, for me to getting to that stage of actually producing this book. 

[00:04:29] Blake Melnick: Sometimes it does take a crisis moment or something that changes that we have no control over that actually forces us to change our behaviors

[00:04:37] and as you say, to take on things that have been left at the side for some time. COVID created this moment in time where almost the entire world came to a complete stop and people had a chance to slow down, to think, reflect on the things that were really important to them, and clearly Moments in Time was something that was important to you.

[00:04:56] Tom Locke: I think one of the things that also pushed me a bit was that I [00:05:00] was getting a little grumpy, to be honest with you. And so were a lot of other people. So, the great thing about music: it's always been an escape for me. And when I hear the songs that I grew up with, that I have some passion for, I can’t help but have a smile on my face. And the whole idea was, hey, can I put some more smiles back on some people's faces? ‘Cause I think we all need it. 

[00:05:24] Blake Melnick: I don't want to call it a distraction, but certainly people need other things to focus on rather than the news and COVID and how it's negatively affecting the world. There are some positive moments and I think we all have to take some time to recognize that. 

[00:05:38] You're clearly a huge music fan. So, tell me about where that passion for music came from; I'm talking about at an early age. Somebody that writes a book like you've written is in love with music. How did that all begin for you? 

[00:05:52] Tom Locke: I sort of joke about this a bit that I was destined to be this because, on the day I was born,

[00:05:58] Music Music, [00:06:00] Music by Theresa Brewer was the number one record on the radio. And also, my parents- they were quite young when I was born and I probably grew up by osmosis listening to the songs through the fifties. And so became maybe a bit of an old soul when it came to that music. Cause it, it literally ingrained and became a part of me.

[00:06:21] I think that's the other thing is living in what we often referred to in the media business, Toronto being a border town in that we could get radio from south of the border, from the US. I was transfixed and listening to stations out of Buffalo and Rochester areas where they're playing some music that wasn't on Chum, in Toronto.

[00:06:43] I'm like George “the Hound” Lorenz out of Buffalo, one of the early renegades or pioneers of rock and roll. And he played when he wanted to play and he played the original music, the stuff that teenagers wanted to hear. And then a lot of that was R&B. 

[00:06:58] Blake Melnick: I do remember [00:07:00] that as well, growing up in Toronto. And for me, as a young boy, I couldn't go to sleep without having the radio on.

[00:07:05] So every night, from the time I can remember, I had the radio on at night, it was a ritual. I came in, I turned off my lights. I turned on the radio. And I think at that time, Q107 had just started to emerge; FM radio was fairly new; and that's what led to my, musical education, I think, or exposure. Were you a player, do you play instruments?

[00:07:26] Tom Locke: No. The only thing I play is the radio. I was in a group, well a group session. The Beatles came out, and as a 14-year-old. Everybody had to have a band ‘cause when you had a band, the girls would flock to you.

[00:07:38] And so our group wasn't that good. In fact, I used to refer to us as The Lack a’ Tones and that we'd lost out to a one-armed violinist on the Kid Mack Amateur Hour. And then I ended up as a background singer for Marcel Marceau’s choir. The only good thing I had going for me was my ears,

[00:07:57] ‘cause I could pick out a song and say “this is [00:08:00] going to be a hit.” That was my gift. 

[00:08:02] Blake Melnick: We've been chronicling the history of music for many years. Why do you think it's important to document the history of music and musicians?

[00:08:08] And what part do you think music plays in our world? 

[00:08:12] Tom Locke: Well, in short, I’ve got to believe that music is part of who you are. And its history is of great value to us in making sense of why we're here, if you will. That music component is a big piece. The other thing why I think it's so important because it exercises what I like to refer to as theater of the mind: when you sit back and you conjure back in those days, certain songs. The memory you have will be different than the memory I have, but it also breeds part of your identity.

[00:08:47] Blake Melnick: And music is so contextual. When you hear a song, it connects with a memory, usually a memory of the time that you first heard that song. It does seem to reinforce those old memories and [00:09:00] people and situation and context. So, I agree with you. 

[00:09:03] In your recent interview with Vancouver’s Ross Michael Pink. You talked about how the music industry has changed, he asked you that question. Do you think it's harder now for good music to be heard? It seemed easy when we were younger, because we had the billboard charts, and DJs would go through those charts every week.

[00:09:19] And so you’d hear the new music, then you'd run out and you'd buy the 45. It seems more difficult now; is it? 

[00:09:26] Tom Locke: It's a great question. The way I look at it is when I think of the music of the past, I not only visualize about the circumstance behind it, but I can see the record, almost feel like I can touch it where there'd be an album or a 45; it's right in front of me.

[00:09:44] I think there's a good news, bad news situation. Because of social media in the marketplace, it is allowed people to put something on the net and seeing how it flies with everyone. The bad news is there's a lot of that stuff out there. Where do you [00:10:00] go?

[00:10:00] There's still only 24 hours in a day to listen to it. And some may get dropped if there's not really a strategic promotional plan behind the song. And believe it or not, that is somewhat analogous to what happened in the fifties and sixties. I've uncovered so many phenomenal regional hits from different cities that just never made the charts despite being played on the air in that local city, because there wasn't money, promotion, there wasn't a strategic plan to break that record nationwide. I still think there's a similar problem for young and upcoming artists in the marketplace today. 

[00:10:41] Blake Melnick: Yeah, even though we've become more empowered, or musicians have become more empowered as a result of technology––in other words, they're able to get their music out on Spotify and iTunes and in fact, self-publishing––but there's so much. How do you get those really good songs that you might not have a [00:11:00] chance to hear? One of the concerns I've always had about algorithm-based music is the algorithm does the work of the human being.

[00:11:07] So, instead of going out on an exploration and learning about new music by going to the record store and pulling out a record and reading the liner notes and saying, “boy, does that ever sound interesting, I think I'm going to buy this and see what it sounds like,” or going through those liner notes of a record that you like and finding the musicians that play on that album and then going out and purchasing their albums and expanding your repertoire that way. These days, it seems like the algorithm is doing it for you. So if you like a particular song, Spotify’s algorithm, Apple's algorithm will go out and pull together a list of songs that all sound very similar, but I'm not sure that's a musical education.

[00:11:49] Tom Locke: No, and I not sure either. And also, I believe out of sight out of mind. Let me make a somewhat of a comparison. You go, “I gotta get a picture of this.” You're taking a selfie, whatever it is, [00:12:00] you're constantly taking a picture. You go home, you put it on your computer, you save it. But when do you ever go back and look at that again, say as opposed to a picture in an album, you slip out and say, oh, here's her history growing up as a kid.

[00:12:14] Because that book is there, and the odd time you'll go over and pick it up. So, this out of sight, out of mind aspect. So, relate that to music. You go in, you pull out an album cover; like you say, there's the liner notes. You read up the liner notes. Oh yeah. That brought it all back.

[00:12:29] I challenge you whether you would go on your website under your music category, where you've got things filed away, click on that, and click on the liner notes you downloaded.

[00:12:40] Blake Melnick: And that is the thing: if I'm listening to new music at somebody else's house and there's a song playing and you go, wow, that's a great song,

[00:12:46] who did that song? Who wrote that song? And people look at you with a blank stare because they really don't know. And it's because the algorithm has just put together a list, but they haven't had the time or the inclination to actually look at the [00:13:00] songs and then do that background research on the artist.

[00:13:03] I also think that there's a selection process that happens. So, if you like a particular type of music, as we all do, but at certain points of time in our life, that changes. I was a top 10 or top 100 guy for a long time. And then, I started taking interest in blues and jazz and that was based on my own desire, reaching out, hearing something and doing that myself.

[00:13:26] I find now when you say, “I like this kind of music,” that's all you hear is that kind of music. And there's no chance for you to actually explore or hear something that you go, wow, I've never heard anything like that. I really liked that. And then, proceed down that path. 

[00:13:41] One of the things I liked most about your book, Tom, was the history you provided around the song; the composers, the artists who made them hits. You created that context for the listener to really appreciate the song. There are certain songs that you might hear that you think, well, I don't really like that song.

[00:13:57] That's not a great song, but once you [00:14:00] understand the context in which that song was written, what was going on in the world at that time, what message the musician was trying to convey, then you take on a new level of appreciation for the song. And I really love that.

[00:14:14] Do you think this on-demand, algorithm-directed listing experience is robbing people, and society, of an important part of music history?

[00:14:24] Tom Locke: Totally concur. I really don't know what has been set aside or has been diarized about some of the stuff from the nineties and 2000s, especially after social media really took off, to find that stuff online bothers me a bit.

[00:14:43] And then also you have to understand, too, there's just so much today. The world's larger, and not that there's not a lot of good stuff out there, there is, but there's just so much stuff and again, only 24 hours in a day. And that's one of the challenges.

[00:14:58] And that's why people often [00:15:00] say, I liked the music I grew up with because it is back, and I say this in quotes, “simpler times,” but it’s something that they're able to get ahead around, especially older folks. 

[00:15:10] Blake Melnick: Yeah. Well, I certainly find the same thing with my listing as well.

[00:15:13] Although I do reach out to listen to new music, but it is harder and it usually has to come through somebody recommending something versus just going out and searching. Occasionally I still listen to the radio, but mostly when I'm in the car. So, I don't really get a chance to explore it the same way, but I'm quite happy to see that albums have made a comeback over the last number of years and that people are out there buying records again.

[00:15:36] And I know I've gone out and bought some albums. I just bought a new stereo and turntable. I haven't owned a turntable in probably 20 years. It's a chance for me to go back into that period of self-exploration of music again.

[00:15:51] Tom Locke: Every Friday night I have a ritual. I’ll pull out an album from the past––it could be country, it can be music- broadway shows, and we play it. [00:16:00] We play it both sides, and that's great. You know, it's just, when you reflect back and you sit back- See, the beautiful thing about music is that as opposed to, say, watching video on television with video and all that, you're leaning in, and you're focused. It’s there. With music, you’re leaning back. [00:16:19] Where the theater of the mind takes you is whatever place you want to go to. And that's very key. And that's why I find it very relaxing as well, no matter what genre I’m playing.

[00:16:34] Blake Melnick: Right. And very few people listen to the full record, they listened to songs and compilation playlists and that kind of thing.

[00:16:41] But very few people actually sit down, which is something you and I grew up with, but we’d sit down and we'd buy a record and we would listen to the whole record. And a lot of the records were concept records. So, all the songs, came together to create a story of some kind, certainly in the progressive rock era in the seventies.

[00:16:59] But, I [00:17:00] think people are missing that. And that's one of the reasons I actually went out and bought a new stereo and bought a turntable was so that I could slow it down a bit and do exactly what you just said. And sit down in an evening and listen to a whole record and try to get the complete feel of what the band or the musicians were trying to create. What's the message being reinforced through all the songs on the record? What's the narrative thread that connects them all together? It can't just pull out one song. To truly appreciate a work of art and the intentionality of the artist, you need to listen to the whole record in its entirety. 

[00:17:41] Tom, your book and your interviews date from the forties through to the seventies generally. Do you listen to any new music that's coming out now? 

[00:17:50] I do. And often when I listen to it, sometimes I'll pick it up from the radio, but often it'll be a reference point. I'll give you two examples. [00:18:00] One that I picked up from TV and radio in the last few years was Adele and I just love their voice and I did a lot of comparisons with people I grew up with. But I love the song Rolling in the Deep, and 

[00:18:13] the first time I heard it, I said, this is going to be a winner. And will she'd be a one-hit wonder? I was curious about her because she was a bit different for the time. But what I can see in her is her passion to perform.

[00:18:24] And so that she's made herself a little different. And so, she's on my bucket list, if you will, to see. Now, in terms of a band, per se, again, referenced by a good friend of mine who keeps on top of music. And he says, Tom, I think you're going to like this. I don't know if you know, but in Toronto that there's been a big rockabilly revival. And there's a group called the Shook Boys. It's S H O O K Boys. And one of their songs that comes to mind right away is Love Bandit Jones [00:19:00] And I watched them on YouTube, heard them, and it took me right back to Billy Lee Riley & The Little Green Men, who did a song called Red Hot that people may remember Aerosmith redoing, but I liked the sound. I loved the energy, to a point that when we go back to Toronto, I'm going to go and see these guys perform. But is that really a stretch for me? Or is that taking me back to my love for rockabilly? 

[00:19:26] Blake Melnick: You mentioned Adele and Adele has an absolutely spectacular voice.

[00:19:29] I'm not surprised. But I also noticed, as we're speaking about female vocalists, I noticed that you tend to have a preference towards female musicians. Is that accurate? 

[00:19:40] Tom Locke: It's true. There's some that were absolutely incredibly mean. Darlene Love––her days with the wall of sound,  Phil Spector, what she did with the group The Blossoms, and her versatility, and she just got one of those great voices. One of the champions for me in the late fifties was a gal named Arlene Smith, who was in a group [00:20:00] called the Chantels. The Chantels did big song called “Maybe,” and her voice was enchanting. And then I hear other ones that should have been huge hits, but they had a buck-thirty seven to promote their records.

[00:20:13] And there's a gal named Bertha Tillman who did a song called You're My Angel, which is written up in the book. And what a phenomenal record! If that had come out in New York, and with the right backing, that would have been a Top Ten. There's no doubt in my mind. But it's their voice. The distinctiveness of their voice, that purity of the sound. And they didn't need the backup music. They could have sang those songs acapella and still would have been strong. 

[00:20:42] Blake Melnick: So, for you then what constitutes a great song? 

[00:20:48] Tom Locke: I feel like I'm on American Bandstand now. I like the beat and you can dance to it. That’d certainly be one of my responses. I think one of the big things [00:21:00] in writing a song is having a really good

[00:21:03] catchphrase or riff in it that people hum along or they'll sing that one line that sticks with you because that takes the momentum of the song down the line. And that has worked in so many records. You'll hear the right phrase and you know what the song is right away.

[00:21:20] I'll go way back in one of the songs- beach music out of the Myrtle Beach area down in the Carolinas was a song called 60 Minute Man. As soon as you hear somebody do, “60-minute man,” people know what you're talking about, if they're a fan of that music. But it had that rhythm that's repeated often in the song.

[00:21:41] So, that's one of the big hooks in a lot of the music that came out back then. 

[00:21:47] Blake Melnick: Yeah. And you make a great point. We remember the chorus, we don't often remember all the lyrics to the song. But I agree with you- and, as a sort of amateur musician, that's the part that I find most [00:22:00] difficult about songwriting.

[00:22:01] I can write the song. That's not a problem, but it's coming up with that memorable chorus that will stick in people's minds. People can remember as long as they can sing usually one or two lines and it's usually the chorus. So, I agree with you. A memorable chorus is a key component of a great song.

[00:22:17] So, if you were stranded on a desert island and had you had five songs that you could have with you on that island, what would they be?

[00:22:27] Tom Locke:  Yeah, well, obviously it’s just eliminating compilation discs. I made a list of my top 100, believe it or not, back in 1976 and actually reviewed that the other day and took a look at, has that changed to much? A few of them did, but there was five in there that, boy, I'd love to have them with me.

[00:22:48] And they were: first and foremost was Story of My Life by Marty Robbins, which I write about in the book. And that was Hal David and Burt Bacharach’s first big chart-buster.[00:23:00] Interestingly, it was a country crossover record then. I have another from the beach music era from the Carolinas era that ended up being one of their unofficial anthems.

[00:23:12] And it is called, “It Will Stand,” by a group called The Showman. Their lead singer is a guy named Norm Johnson. He was known as General Norman Johnson, and he ended up being the lead singer on the Invictus labeling with The Chairman of the Board––“Give me Just a Little More Time”–– but this is him singing lead 1961.

[00:23:33] It's a phenomenal record. And it talks about how rock and roll will stand. Third one is still one of my favorite groups. I had the pleasure of seeing them live in 1973 in Toronto. To me it epitomizes what street corner harmony are often the phrase doo-op  means and it's “I Wonder Why,” by Deon and the Belmonts.

[00:23:57] And was their first breakout record, [00:24:00] phenomenal record. And then another song, which is really a journey in how it got there. But I just love her energy and seen her performance live was “I Love Rock and Roll” by Joan Jett and the Blackhearts. I love her version from ‘82, went to number one. And her story is also my book. And last but not least was someone we talked about, and that was the song “Maybe” by Arlene Smith in the Chantels.

[00:24:29] Blake Melnick: All great choices, and I did listen to them as I went through the book. 

So, before we leave it and move on to discuss the book, I want to get your perspective on whether you think we're going to see a Renaissance in music, or proliferation of new music, post-COVID. Because of course, a lot of musicians, and many we've interviewed on the show,

[00:24:49] haven't been out playing live. They've been in the studio, and they've been recording, and they've been writing. And, as happened in the sixties, the late sixties, the political [00:25:00] climate had a huge influence on the production of what I would consider quite meaningful music that reflected people's feelings at the time. They were under stress as a result of the Vietnam War and a variety of other things.

[00:25:13] And it produced a lot of great music. Are we going to see the same thing post-COVID? 

[00:25:18] Tom Locke: Well, I think there is a Renaissance in music during COVID because people were at home and then they escaped in music. So, I think that's one thing. I think it has been proven in the timeliness of the book and the reaction I’ve had to it.

[00:25:30] The other thing I see is, hey, a lot of these artists were driven to perform and they love performing. A lot of people love seeing performers. And so, I see big attendances coming down the line for big shows. And I see concerts come of age again, big time. And it could be ones looking back at groups, or it could be current artists today who have been popular, but now they've got a chance [00:26:00] to get out and tour. Because what's changed in the music business

[00:26:03] now is the money's in touring. You use the record to promote you so you can get out and tour. Back in the day, you made money from your records and you got out and toured to sell your records. So, I really think concerts are going to go full swing again. 

[00:26:20] Blake Melnick: We hope so. It's one of the things that I miss most.

[00:26:23] This period is not being able to see live music. I have managed when there's been some windows opened and the protocols around COVID to sneak out and see a couple of shows, but not many. And I used to go out all the time to see shows. I think the last big show I saw was the Cross Roads concert, Clapton's sponsored event in Dallas, Texas.

[00:26:43] And that was just pre-COVID. So, I was very fortunate to be able to get tickets for that, of course, and get out to see that. Two and a half days of solid music kind of carried me through periods of COVID, but I do miss that, and I certainly hope you're right. Well, let's move on to talking about [00:27:00] the book.

[00:27:00] So, this is obviously a passion project for you. How did it all begin?

[00:27:07] Tom Locke: Well, I guess it goes back to 1986 and my desire- See, the stories behind some of these records are pretty phenomenal. So, I thought, you know, maybe there's something there. And I guess I got spurred by the late great Paul Harvey who used to have a great syndicated show out of Chicago, and his one particular feature was The Rest… of the Story.

[00:27:34] And he would begin––very interesting cadence––he would capture your attention and he would go through setting the table, if you will, for his story and for a surprise ending. He would set the table, they'd have a commercial break, and then he would finish off with the rest of the story.

[00:27:56] They were fascinating. They were captivating. A lot of them [00:28:00] biographically driven about famous people like Abe Lincoln, for example. So, I'm going, think about this. You're driving to work in the morning or you're driving home, and somebody starts talking about a record or an artist, and you're trying to figure out who he’s talked about, they get the shove in a little commercial,

[00:28:19] perfect. Then you come at the end, you finish with the rest of the story, but even stronger because then he can finish off with the record.

[00:28:27] A little piece every day that people would look into. So that's what sort of drove me. And I went, geez, if I could create these five-minute pieces record included, in that [the book], wouldn't that be a neat thing?

[00:28:38] And so I went out in Vancouver, found a local DJ who really liked my concept. And so we did demos, 95 of them, and they thought they were great. And then I bounced it off at one of the guys at Katel who did the production of all their albums that we post produced here in Vancouver. [00:29:00] And his comment was, “There's not enough of them. These are great. I really like what you're doing.” So, that pushed me more; I said, “I think I'm onto something there.” But then, I had the wind taken out of my sails when I went to Nashville and- with a close compatriot down there who did all the TV commercials for radio stations.

[00:29:25] And he shared his stuff with the extras of his staff, what I had written and with some of the people there. And what I got back was, “Hey, nobody wants sound bites.” That's what they call it. “Nobody wants sound bites today. They want our programming,” like Dick Barkley type shows or KCK, some top 40 that type of thing.

[00:29:45] So, I just shelved it for seven years 

[00:29:49] Blake Melnick: This concludes this week's episode of For What it's Worth, Part One of Music Man, with my guest, author, and music fan Tom Locke. Tom has kindly agreed to provide you, our [00:30:00] listeners, with a limited number of signed copies of his book for a special price. We'll announce when the book is available for purchase and provide links on our show blog and in our show notes.

[00:30:11] We have a number of shoutouts this week; the first go to John DeVries and Ben Hunter for correctly guessing the name of the song and artists from last week's rock and roll trivia question. A moment in time from Tom's new book called Baby, Come Back featuring artist Eddie Grant. Their names will be placed in a draw to win a signed copy of Moments in Time.

[00:30:32] And we're going to continue with the trivia in the next episode of The Space In Between. So, make sure you tune in to the show for the clue. We also have another shout-out we want to make to Carlos Santana. Thanks to my friend, Denise Ross, I was able to go and see Santana last week, and what a show. 74 years of age and he hasn't lost a beat. I particularly liked his message of oneness, of living in the moment, of experiencing the show collectively as a group. [00:31:00] And I think he was successful in making us do just that. 

[00:31:03] It was also a real treat to see Cindy Blackman Santana on drums. Cindy was featured in the recent documentary, Count Me In. And if you haven't seen that film, you got to check it out. Cindy is a monster drummer.

[00:31:17] One of our chief goals at For What it's Worth Podcast is to promote culture, change, and creativity through the work of our many guests. We also want to provide you, our listeners, with some cool opportunities to experience artists and their work outside the show.

[00:31:33] On that note, we have a couple of up-and-coming events featuring Blair Packham: one of the guests on our Pass the Jam series that we want to get on your radar. Have you ever tried to write a song, but got stuck along the way? Blair and company can help. They'll help you finish your songs with fresh perspectives and new ideas.

[00:31:53] The producers of Canada's premier songwriting workshop present the Song Studio Writer's Room, a deep dive into rewriting. This event will be held online via zoom all day, Saturday, April 9th, and from 11:00 to 2:00 PM Eastern daylight time, Sunday, April the 10th. This deep dive features the great songwriter, musician, and performer Michelle Wilson. Michelle has performed with the likes of David Crosby, Becca Stevens, Iggy Pop and the Stooges, and the Zac Brown Band. She will be joined by songwriter mentors Blair Packham and Allister Bradley. It's not a webinar and it's not pre-recorded; it all happens real-time with one-on-one interaction with your mentors.

[00:32:38] Check it out at songsstudio.ca. And if you can’t make it to this one, there's more on the way. And we'll make sure you hear about it here first. Also, Blair Packham and the Impossible Dream continue their Toronto residency at Sauce on the Danforth at 1376 Danforth Avenue every Wednesday night from 7:00 to 9:00 [00:33:00] PM.

[00:33:01] And even though it's called a residency, Blair, Jim Nielsen, and Andy Humphrey don't actually live at Sauce, although they probably could. The ambiance is a cross between a 19th-century opium den and a Victorian brothel. And the fellows feel very much at home there. Come and enjoy their soaring and sweet harmonies along with Blair's provocative banter. The Impossible Dream and their songs could make you cry, laugh, or hopefully buy another round. Come and check them out.

[00:33:32] You can find out more information about both events on our show blog, by joining our For What it's Worth the series Facebook page, or in the show notes from this week's episode.

[00:33:43] I'm planning on attending this event in the near future. So, if you see a guy sitting there with a weird microphone, come and say hi... for what it's worth.